Letters from the Specific Carbohydrate Diet support group, July 8-9, 1997 (20) Date: Tue, 8 Jul 1997 17:39:34 +0300 Reply-To: Specific Carbohydrate Diet List <SCD@MAELSTROM.STJOHNS.EDU> Sender: Specific Carbohydrate Diet List <SCD@MAELSTROM.STJOHNS.EDU> From: "ARLENE C. BRILL" <acbrill@ESCORTNET.COM> Subject: an interesting coincidence?? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit i have been following this group for a few months...i was drawn here because of the health problems i was experiencing with my intestines, etc. i modified my diet but at the time could not get enough info about the Diet to follow it. i did start eating more yogurt and less bread/carbos...but i was still dragging around week to week, day to day...no energy and lots of pain... well, i moved to this new apartment three and a half weeks ago and i have to tell you all something...the pain is gone!! the energy is returning...i'm starting to feel more like Me again... i wonder, i just wonder....the other house had a terrible moisture problem....i had mold and mildew climbing up the walls in the bedroom and there was NO WAY to get rid of it...i tried for 3 years...this new house is dry...totally..with lots of sunlight so that the mold and mildew won't even make an appearance. is it possible that my body was reacting to the 'spores' in the air??? and that's what was causing an auto-immune response?? could it possibly be so?? arlene in istanbul ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 8 Jul 1997 11:22:35 -0400 Reply-To: Specific Carbohydrate Diet List <SCD@MAELSTROM.STJOHNS.EDU> Sender: Specific Carbohydrate Diet List <SCD@MAELSTROM.STJOHNS.EDU> From: witkowski <witkowskis@WORLDNET.ATT.NET> Subject: Re: an interesting coincidence?? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ---------- > From: ARLENE C. BRILL <acbrill@ESCORTNET.COM> > To: SCD@MAELSTROM.STJOHNS.EDU > Subject: an interesting coincidence?? > Date: Tuesday, July 08, 1997 10:39 AM > Dear Arlene, Sure it is very possible, my sister -inlaw just called me two weeks ago all excited that maybe she found a cure for me. ( I'm the one with Behcets ) She ran into a friend who had been sick for years and this women found a doctor that put her on a diet similar to the SCD but she is very allergic to mold spores. She only eats meat without additives, she cannot leave fruit or vegetables out on the counter for even a short while , ( since the doctor told her it develops spores in a very short time. Well long story short , the regime this lady followed fixed all that ails her. I wish it was so simple for myself, this diet has greatly helped my colon.Now I need to find cures for the other parts of me that ail. My first flare of Behcets was at age 18 to 19 and a half , I am now 43. Funny thing is that I went into a controllable phase all the way up to age 39 is just co- incidence that I went on Doctor Atkins at age 19 and a half .( I had packed on a few newly wed lbs ) His diet sure is similar to the SCD. Sadly my hunt for a total cure is still on as I have neuro involvement, if I could beat these headaches I would be singing from the hill tops. Also I have a lot of muscle degeneration. A while back someone wrote about what Behcets is it was a very misleading and limited description. Here is my description of what Behcets is although I will miss many symptoms , I think all will get the idea. I will list the ones that seem to be shared by almost all in our Behcet's group. Plus some shared by luckily a few ( Blindness) Mouth and genital cankers ( Mouth more frequent) Arthritis ( unlike what was written it does not take a long time to develop , especially when aided by large doses of pred. ) Involvement of the entire digestive tract. from the mouth right down to the rectum and vagina, Often mis diagnosed as CD or UC. This also includes the sinuses. ( this along with head trouble was my first symptom bad enough to complain about) Neuro involvement Migraines , peripheral neuropathy over ninety percent of the people in our behcets group which numbers 150 have a big problem with head troubles. MRI's show white patches on the brain from the headaches Skin rashes and photo sensitivity . Only 25 % of United states patients respond to the pin prick test. Blindness , luckily in the US this also runs at a low percent. Fatigue and muscle degeneration It can also attack the organ of it's choice Now here is an interesting tidbit Behcets people all seem to gain weight in large amounts when put on steroids. All the people I know with CD still seem to lose even when on large doses. So if you gain while on them think about Behcets. ( That is only my personal observation) I try very hard to get people on our Behcets list to try the Scd or variations of it . I would say the ten of us on the list that use alternative methods and special diets are in the best shape. Now here is what really bugged me on the post someone else wrote about Behcets that it seems to run in ten year cycles. WRONG !!!!! Many in our group have been suffering for 20 , 30 and even more years. We have quite a few teens with it also. Even some babies, it can strike a person at ANY AGE. I have not covered all the symptoms but I hope it will give all of you a bit of a clearer picture of just what Behcets is. I am so happy that you have found relief Arlene , I would suggest if you think mold is a big problem for you that you keep your fruit and veggies in the fridge and scrub them just before eating. I hope you still limit your bread and other carbo intake. I lent my SCd diet book to a women in England , but when I get it back I would gladly mail it to you. Take Care, Kay > > i wonder, i just wonder....the other house had a terrible moisture > problem....i had > mold and mildew climbing up the walls in the bedroom and there was NO WAY > to get rid of it...i tried for 3 years...this new house is > dry...totally..with lots of sunlight > so that the mold and mildew won't even make an appearance. > > is it possible that my body was reacting to the 'spores' in the air??? and > that's what > was causing an auto-immune response?? could it possibly be so?? > > arlene in istanbul ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 8 Jul 1997 11:42:00 -0400 Reply-To: Specific Carbohydrate Diet List <SCD@MAELSTROM.STJOHNS.EDU> Sender: Specific Carbohydrate Diet List <SCD@MAELSTROM.STJOHNS.EDU> From: witkowski <witkowskis@WORLDNET.ATT.NET> Subject: Re: Why??? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ---------- > From: Tom Robinson <tomr@VADER.INOW.COM> > To: SCD@MAELSTROM.STJOHNS.EDU > Subject: Re: Why??? > Date: Monday, July 07, 1997 9:15 PM > Regarding what Dietmar said below, this kind of thinking disturbs me. It's > too much like that of M.D.'s who prescribe their usual medicines but are > not willing to consider the SCD diet or other alternatives. > Dear Tom , I could not agree with you more, We surly do not want to become guilty of just what many doctor's are guilty of. Questions are a good thing. We are each unique after all. I am sure that Dietmar did not mean to sound so harsh, but we all need to be careful about not judging another and being there to help not criticize. I got beat up on this list for a question months ago and just became a lurker for three months . Example sometimes it seems to me that yogurt just becomes to much of a focus to people on this, I have absolutely no trouble WITHOUT yogurt. I never liked the stuff anyway. But I don't mind seeing all the discussion on it for it could be a key for someone else. But one does not have to have it. I am proof of that. Also we have to keep in mind that some people have not had access to the book , so we are all here to (gently) help them with their questions. I am home from camp today to do laundry so after my long post to Arlene I need to wrap this up. But here is a little idea if a couple people have the time maybe they could post a Sunday through Sat sample menu of what they eat in a week. I bet that would help the people who cannot access the book. Take Care, Kay ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 8 Jul 1997 18:48:51 +0200 Reply-To: Specific Carbohydrate Diet List <SCD@MAELSTROM.STJOHNS.EDU> Sender: Specific Carbohydrate Diet List <SCD@MAELSTROM.STJOHNS.EDU> From: gwozdz <gwozdz@HRZ.TU-FREIBERG.DE> Subject: Re: Information about Wolfgang Lutz Journal Article Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Roberta Gelatt wrote: > > Dear Miroslav > > I am interested in taking the English abstract of Wolfgang Lutz's Journal > Article to my MD. Would you be able to provide the title of the article and > the date it was published. Thanks > > Roberta > > Does Anyone know any details about the diet that Wolfgang Lutz recommends? > > Thanks again. > > Roberta > Hi Roberta, The article was printed in the Munic Medical Journal nr 50, 1987 (M¸nchener Medizinische Wochenschrift, Nr. 50, 1987). Regards Miroslav ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 8 Jul 1997 18:53:04 +0200 Reply-To: Specific Carbohydrate Diet List <SCD@MAELSTROM.STJOHNS.EDU> Sender: Specific Carbohydrate Diet List <SCD@MAELSTROM.STJOHNS.EDU> From: gwozdz <gwozdz@HRZ.TU-FREIBERG.DE> Subject: Re: an interesting coincidence?? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ARLENE C. BRILL wrote: > > i have been following this group for a few months...i was drawn here > because of > the health problems i was experiencing with my intestines, etc. i modified > my diet > but at the time could not get enough info about the Diet to follow it. i > did start > eating more yogurt and less bread/carbos...but i was still dragging around > week > to week, day to day...no energy and lots of pain... > well, i moved to this new apartment three and a half weeks ago and i have > to tell > you all something...the pain is gone!! the energy is returning...i'm > starting to > feel more like Me again... > > i wonder, i just wonder....the other house had a terrible moisture > problem....i had > mold and mildew climbing up the walls in the bedroom and there was NO WAY > to get rid of it...i tried for 3 years...this new house is > dry...totally..with lots of sunlight > so that the mold and mildew won't even make an appearance. > > is it possible that my body was reacting to the 'spores' in the air??? and > that's what > was causing an auto-immune response?? could it possibly be so?? > > arlene in istanbul Hi Arlene I can only confirm your experience. Last year I had to spent a couple of months in a damp and mouldy house and it nearly killed me. That is definitely due to a weakended immunsystem. Regards Miroslav ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 8 Jul 1997 09:55:25 PDT Reply-To: Specific Carbohydrate Diet List <SCD@MAELSTROM.STJOHNS.EDU> Sender: Specific Carbohydrate Diet List <SCD@MAELSTROM.STJOHNS.EDU> From: T G <tguar@HOTMAIL.COM> Subject: Re: yogurt Content-Type: text/plain Bill, That is a good question and I really think that it would save a lot of time and trouble. I can't think of any reason why it wouldn't work, and I'm curious to see what other people in the group think about it. Maybe someone who is in contact with Elaine needs to ask about it. Jim, If the yogurt was done fermenting after the temperature is no longer at 100-110F, then how could we use the commercial yogurt as a starter? Obviously, the bacteria present in the yogurt are still active enough to eat up all the lactose in the milk that we boil. Everyone, Does anyone know if there is a kit to test for the lactose content of foods? If this was the case we could try this easier method of making yogurt. Take care, Tina _______________________________________________________ Get Private Web-Based Email Free http://www.hotmail.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 8 Jul 1997 10:13:36 PST Reply-To: Specific Carbohydrate Diet List <SCD@MAELSTROM.STJOHNS.EDU> Sender: Specific Carbohydrate Diet List <SCD@MAELSTROM.STJOHNS.EDU> From: ACB <benkea@MAILHOST.PAC.DFO.CA> Subject: MOLD? / Book Access In-Reply-To: <71409080707991/1049630@VANHQ1> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN >she is very allergic to mold spores. She only eats meat without additives, >she cannot leave fruit or vegetables out on the counter for even a short >while , ( since the doctor told her it develops spores in a very short >time Arlene, What about leaving unripe fruit on the counter to ripen, like tomatoes, mangoes, or avacados? Is mold growing? I never heard this before? Does anyone else know more about this mold thing? Everyone, I have heard a couple people mention they couldn't get the book. Have any of you tried ordering it from the Breaking the Vicious Cycle website at: http://www.fwi.com/cmg/ The order form is on: http://www.fwi.com/cmg/orderform.html It appears you can have it sent to anywhere in the world. Anna ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 8 Jul 1997 10:24:20 PST Reply-To: Specific Carbohydrate Diet List <SCD@MAELSTROM.STJOHNS.EDU> Sender: Specific Carbohydrate Diet List <SCD@MAELSTROM.STJOHNS.EDU> From: ACB <benkea@MAILHOST.PAC.DFO.CA> Subject: Re: yogurt In-Reply-To: <73759080707991/1049770@VANHQ1> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN About the commercial yogurt, I don't know WHY, but I don't think it would work to try fermenting store bought yogurt as is. I thought that as soon as you chill the yogurt, it stops the fermentation process. But I still don't know why it works as starter. What about other fermented products? Would the same principal work? I mean, with cheeses, the longer it's left, the stronger it gets (eg. mild, medium, or old cheddar), but if you leave it out on the counter, it will spoil and go moldy, it won't improve and get older and stronger. What about wine? Why doesn't it turn to vinegar if you leave it out, or does it? So, it seems that it's some sort of chemical reaction process that must start with boiled milk, in order to eliminate all but the right kind of bacteria. Why doesn't someone try it, just for the heck of it, and let us know what happens. Personally, I have my doubts about any commercial yogurt because I could never tolerate the homemade yogurt that I made using commercial yogurt as a starter, but then when I bought powedered starter, I had no problem. This makes me wonder if there are not some other additives in the commercial yogurt which are not listed, or if they are using some sort of different culture. Something is different from the powdered, that's for sure, we just don't know what it is. Anna ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 8 Jul 1997 21:00:12 +0300 Reply-To: Specific Carbohydrate Diet List <SCD@MAELSTROM.STJOHNS.EDU> Sender: Specific Carbohydrate Diet List <SCD@MAELSTROM.STJOHNS.EDU> From: "Arlene C. Brill" <acbrill@ESCORTNET.COM> Subject: Re: an interesting coincidence?? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" big snips taken...but here's the point... At 11:22 AM 7/8/97 -0400, witkowski wrote: >---------- > > I have not covered all the symptoms but I hope it will give all of you a >bit of a clearer picture of just what Behcets is. > I am so happy that you have found relief Arlene , I would suggest if you >think mold is a big problem for you that you keep your fruit and veggies in >the fridge and scrub them just before eating. I hope you still limit your >bread and other carbo intake. I lent my SCd diet book to a women in England >, but when I get it back I would gladly mail it to you. > Take Care, > Kay > Behcets sounds omnious...and difficult to pinpoint. i surely hope you get well... i just got Elaine's book (i'm assuming that's the SCD diet book you are talking about)...unfortunately, i can't get a lot of the stuff included in the diet over here.. but i'm not sure exactly what my problem is...the MD said 'stress'...his blanket diagnosis whenever he sees a single, working woman in this culture, i'll bet... and since i've cut back on some of the 'baddies' i am feeling much much better. we'll see what happens when the weather changes and it gets damp here.. we badly need rain...but my body's happy this way...and my tummy's fine... if i feel a bit 'sluggish' i just take a tablet called "Pankreon"..i think it's manufactured in Finland...don't know if it's available stateside..it stimulates the pancreas or it replaces the pancreatic enzymes that my body doesn't want to produce! the ingredients say '8000 lipase 6500 Amylase - 450 Protease and something called 'F.I.P. 212.5 mg. what do any of you know about this medication? it seems to help me when i need it. also, i've been eating yogurt 3-7 times a week and watermelon for dinner..which helps enormously! i don't know what is doing the trick, but i am almost myself again!! thank for caring and sharing Kay... good luck to you too. arlene ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 8 Jul 1997 11:38:37 -0400 Reply-To: Specific Carbohydrate Diet List <SCD@MAELSTROM.STJOHNS.EDU> Sender: Specific Carbohydrate Diet List <SCD@MAELSTROM.STJOHNS.EDU> From: Benito Rey <brey@INTERLOG.COM> Organization: Gander Subject: Re: Why??? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Tom Robinson wrote: > > Regarding what Dietmar said below, this kind of thinking disturbs me. It's > too much like that of M.D.'s who prescribe their usual medicines but are > not willing to consider the SCD diet or other alternatives. > > Our diet is not a sacred religion, nor is Elaine either a Goddess or > infallible. Questioning and wanting more information on the diet's > mechanism's and principles, especially when one follows it and gets > great initial results but then deteriorates more so than the book says > will happen, is normal and desirable. > > I'm convinced I'm doing much better on the diet than I would be otherwise. > At the same time, I think we ought to be able to share our doubts and > concerns. > > Changing topics, I too read Eating Right for your Type. The author says that > as a person with type AB blood I should be able to eat dairy products, which > I can. I was wondering if Denise and others who are not able to eat yoghurt > are the type the author says should avoid dairy: type O. > > >> Right. At some point (like when you're miserably sick and have found > >no answers) and you hear about so many folks who've tried this and say it > >works, even if in some cases not 100% but better than anything else that's > >ever come down the pike, well, how about packing away your "Doubting Thomas > >why's?" into the attic trunk for a while and just go with the program, see > >how it works for you? > > >The "constant why's" types, well, hey, get the hell out of your own way and > >get into gear ... brains don't help much in this case, eating by the plan > >does! > > >We can discuss all the possible "why's" at a later date, first, let's get > >well. Does that make sense? > > The trouble is even though we strictly follow the diet, and don't eat certain > foods until we're supposed to, not all of us continue to get well, so we > want to know what changes might help, get a better understanding of the > diet's principles. etc. Does *that* make sense? > > Tom Robinson Well done Tom Benito -- ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 8 Jul 1997 21:12:16 +0300 Reply-To: Specific Carbohydrate Diet List <SCD@MAELSTROM.STJOHNS.EDU> Sender: Specific Carbohydrate Diet List <SCD@MAELSTROM.STJOHNS.EDU> From: "Arlene C. Brill" <acbrill@ESCORTNET.COM> Subject: Re: an interesting coincidence?? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" thanks miroslav.. do you think the mold spores caused my (and your) immune system to react that way? gee, wouldn't it be wonderful if we all could be cured so easily? i think we're killing ourselves by destroying our natural environments... too bad... acb At 06:53 PM 7/8/97 +0200, gwozdz wrote: >ARLENE C. BRILL wrote: >> >> i have been following this group for a few months...i was drawn here >> because of >> the health problems i was experiencing with my intestines, etc. i modified >> my diet >> but at the time could not get enough info about the Diet to follow it. i >> did start >> eating more yogurt and less bread/carbos...but i was still dragging around >> week >> to week, day to day...no energy and lots of pain... >> well, i moved to this new apartment three and a half weeks ago and i have >> to tell >> you all something...the pain is gone!! the energy is returning...i'm >> starting to >> feel more like Me again... >> >> i wonder, i just wonder....the other house had a terrible moisture >> problem....i had >> mold and mildew climbing up the walls in the bedroom and there was NO WAY >> to get rid of it...i tried for 3 years...this new house is >> dry...totally..with lots of sunlight >> so that the mold and mildew won't even make an appearance. >> >> is it possible that my body was reacting to the 'spores' in the air??? and >> that's what >> was causing an auto-immune response?? could it possibly be so?? >> >> arlene in istanbul > > >Hi Arlene > >I can only confirm your experience. Last year I had to spent a couple of >months in a damp and mouldy house and it nearly killed me. That is >definitely due to a weakended immunsystem. > >Regards >Miroslav > > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 8 Jul 1997 21:13:46 +0300 Reply-To: Specific Carbohydrate Diet List <SCD@MAELSTROM.STJOHNS.EDU> Sender: Specific Carbohydrate Diet List <SCD@MAELSTROM.STJOHNS.EDU> From: "Arlene C. Brill" <acbrill@ESCORTNET.COM> Subject: Re: MOLD? / Book Access Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" hi anna...yes, tomatoes get moldy if i leave them out..but that's true even in this new house. about the book..i ordered it from Amazon Books on the WEB...i got it in just a few days... check it out...it's worth it.. acb At 10:13 AM 7/8/97 PST, ACB wrote: >>she is very allergic to mold spores. She only eats meat without additives, >>she cannot leave fruit or vegetables out on the counter for even a short >>while , ( since the doctor told her it develops spores in a very short >>time > >Arlene, >What about leaving unripe fruit on the counter to ripen, like tomatoes, >mangoes, or avacados? Is mold growing? I never heard this before? Does >anyone else know more about this mold thing? > >Everyone, >I have heard a couple people mention they couldn't get the book. Have any of >you tried ordering it from the Breaking the Vicious Cycle website at: >http://www.fwi.com/cmg/ > >The order form is on: >http://www.fwi.com/cmg/orderform.html > >It appears you can have it sent to anywhere in the world. >Anna > > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 8 Jul 1997 13:47:31 -0400 Reply-To: Specific Carbohydrate Diet List <SCD@MAELSTROM.STJOHNS.EDU> Sender: Specific Carbohydrate Diet List <SCD@MAELSTROM.STJOHNS.EDU> From: witkowski <witkowskis@WORLDNET.ATT.NET> Subject: Re: Mixed together messages MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ---------- > From: Benito Rey <brey@INTERLOG.COM> > To: SCD@MAELSTROM.STJOHNS.EDU > Subject: Re: Why??? > Date: Tuesday, July 08, 1997 11:38 AM > Dear Benito & All, It is very confusing when we don't point out which section of what we send is said by whom, soon it appears that Tom for instance said what Dietmar said etc... I think we need to work on being careful in how we edit two or three peoples words into one. Maybe if we leave good size spaces between each person's comment. and be sure to write above or below the quoted caption who it was said by. I hope all will work on answering any and all questions in a kind tone and not insult the questioner's intelligence. As I keep saying we are all unique and need to find our own path to wellness. The Scd diet with minor adjustments is wonderful for me doctor D'amato's might be perfect for the next person Atkins for the next. Don't presume that just because something works perfect for one person it will work perfect for the next. Isn't that just what many doctor's are guilty of. Heading to the lake now . Hope all have a great week. Take Care, Kay ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 8 Jul 1997 12:14:24 -0700 Reply-To: Specific Carbohydrate Diet List <SCD@MAELSTROM.STJOHNS.EDU> Sender: Specific Carbohydrate Diet List <SCD@MAELSTROM.STJOHNS.EDU> From: Dietmar Hartl <"painsolv" > Subject: Re: Mixed together messages In-Reply-To: <199707081830.LAA08027@ktk1.SMARTT.COM> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 01:47 PM 7/8/97 -0400, you wrote: >---------- >> From: Benito Rey <brey@INTERLOG.COM> >> To: SCD@MAELSTROM.STJOHNS.EDU >> Subject: Re: Why??? >> Date: Tuesday, July 08, 1997 11:38 AM >> > > > Dear Benito & All, > It is very confusing when we don't point out which >section of what we send is said by whom, soon it appears that Tom for >instance said what Dietmar said etc... I think we need to work on being >careful in how we edit two or three peoples words into one. Maybe if we >leave good size spaces between each person's comment. and be sure to write >above or below the quoted caption who it was said by. Exactly! Dietmar > I hope all will work on answering any and all questions in a kind tone and >not insult the questioner's intelligence. As I keep saying we are all >unique and need to find our own path to wellness. The Scd diet with minor >adjustments is wonderful for me doctor D'amato's might be perfect for the >next person Atkins for the next. > Don't presume that just because something works perfect for one person it >will work perfect for the next. Isn't that just what many doctor's are >guilty of. > Heading to the lake now . Hope all have a great week. > Take Care, > Kay > > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 8 Jul 1997 12:27:34 -0700 Reply-To: Specific Carbohydrate Diet List <SCD@MAELSTROM.STJOHNS.EDU> Sender: Specific Carbohydrate Diet List <SCD@MAELSTROM.STJOHNS.EDU> From: Dietmar Hartl <"painsolv" > Subject: Re: Why??? In-Reply-To: <199707081804.LAA05959@ktk1.SMARTT.COM> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 11:38 AM 7/8/97 -0400, you wrote: >Tom Robinson wrote: >> >> Regarding what Dietmar said below, this kind of thinking disturbs me. It's >> too much like that of M.D.'s who prescribe their usual medicines but are >> not willing to consider the SCD diet or other alternatives. >> >> Our diet is not a sacred religion, nor is Elaine either a Goddess or >> infallible. Questioning and wanting more information on the diet's >> mechanism's and principles, especially when one follows it and gets >> great initial results but then deteriorates more so than the book says >> will happen, is normal and desirable. >> >> I'm convinced I'm doing much better on the diet than I would be otherwise. >> At the same time, I think we ought to be able to share our doubts and >> concerns. >> This is from Dietmar: true, you're right. It's just that, having been an "intellectual" most of my life, I find that people who "think too much" and are "head tripping" all the time forget to "get on with the job" ... they keep worrying / pondering / asking intellectual questions instead of having a life and getting out there and DOING stuff to get results, THEN examining and refining. They tend to put the cart before the horse: thinking / navel-gazing interminably and discussing tiny teeny semantics to minutae instead of just "getting with the program" and seeing what happens. So sure, nobody would make ANY progress and find any solutions to problems (such as ours, of IBD) if they didn't use their head, ask questions, and think things through, but there comes a point when you're better off to just put all that "wheel-spinning" on the shelf for a while and just get on with things ... THAT was my point. Dietmar >> Changing topics, I too read Eating Right for your Type. The author says that >> as a person with type AB blood I should be able to eat dairy products, which >> I can. I was wondering if Denise and others who are not able to eat yoghurt >> are the type the author says should avoid dairy: type O. >> I'm a type O, and I seem to be able to tolerate the Elaine-style yoghurt, but definitely NO other dairy products. And I already was intolerant to dairy products since about age 6 (diarrhoea, gas), so it's not "in my imagination". But her yoghurt seems to work quite fine, I've concluded (unless I'm deluding myself; but then, can one "delude oneself" so that major gas & the runs stay away?) Dietmar >> >> Right. At some point (like when you're miserably sick and have found >> >no answers) and you hear about so many folks who've tried this and say it >> >works, even if in some cases not 100% but better than anything else that's >> >ever come down the pike, well, how about packing away your "Doubting Thomas >> >why's?" into the attic trunk for a while and just go with the program, see >> >how it works for you? >> >> >The "constant why's" types, well, hey, get the hell out of your own way and >> >get into gear ... brains don't help much in this case, eating by the plan >> >does! >> Yep, I think I was a bit harsh in my choice of words. Sometimes, having hung around "intellectual" types so many years and seen through their "head games", I just get fed up with that rather un-productice, out-of-touch-with-living approach to life. You hit me on a bad day ;-) Dietmar >> >We can discuss all the possible "why's" at a later date, first, let's get >> >well. Does that make sense? >> >> The trouble is even though we strictly follow the diet, and don't eat certain >> foods until we're supposed to, not all of us continue to get well, so we >> want to know what changes might help, get a better understanding of the >> diet's principles. etc. Does *that* make sense? >> Absolutely; which is why I read d'Adamo's book, and Sears' book, and my physiology books, to see "why isn't her diet working for me 100%?" But meanwhile I'm nevertheless applying her principles, plus keeping a food diary for my own personal "detective work" to weed out what parts of her method do NOT work for me, and what I need to change. My point is: keep a balance between "doing" and "pondering", and don't bet all your chips on "pondering". Life is best EXPERIENCED. Dietmar >> Tom Robinson > > >Well done Tom > >Benito >-- > > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ D. Hartl RMT Specialist in: Orthopaedic Assessment - Tactile Therapies - Pain Solutions White Rock, British Columbia %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 8 Jul 1997 12:39:32 -0700 Reply-To: Specific Carbohydrate Diet List <SCD@MAELSTROM.STJOHNS.EDU> Sender: Specific Carbohydrate Diet List <SCD@MAELSTROM.STJOHNS.EDU> From: Dietmar Hartl <"painsolv" > Subject: Re: yogurt In-Reply-To: <199707081732.KAA03709@ktk1.SMARTT.COM> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 10:24 AM 7/8/97 PST, you wrote: >About the commercial yogurt, I don't know WHY, but I don't think it would work >to try fermenting store bought yogurt as is. I thought that as soon as you >chill the yogurt, it stops the fermentation process. But I still don't know >why it works as starter. What about other fermented products? Would the same >principal work? I mean, with cheeses, the longer it's left, the stronger it >gets (eg. mild, medium, or old cheddar), but if you leave it out on the >counter, it will spoil and go moldy, it won't improve and get older and >stronger. You have to have proper storage conditions, a combination of "correct" moisture content in the air PLUS temperature; same idea of how good butcher shops age their meat: they have special coolers which control those 2 factors, whereas if we at home "hang our meat", which is what butchers call it, I believe, it just gets rotten, right? Dietmar >What about wine? Why doesn't it turn to vinegar if you leave it >out, or does it? > I believe it does. Ever taken a winery tour? Notice how it's same as what I just mentioned: temperature & moisture controlled ... cool dark "wine cellars", except the "modern" wineries do it with machinery & electronically-controlled stainless steel vats, but the concept's the same. So maybe that ties in with Arlene's & others' comments about mold: if we keep our OWN bodies under the "right" conditions of temperature & humidity, we are healthy, if not (such as perhaps the "Wet Coast" we here in British Columbia live on?) we get / stay ill? I don't know, but it's an interesting concept to tuck into the back of one's mind. If anyone out there is willing to spend some time doing websearching on "morbidity" (meaning "the frequency of a disease in a population) or "epidemiology" for colitis & IBD & Crohn's, we could get together some reallly useful facts about which parts of the world have highest vs. lowest incidences. Dietmar >So, it seems that it's some sort of chemical reaction process that must start >with boiled milk, in order to eliminate all but the right kind of bacteria. Actually, I believe it's to eliminate virtually ALL bacteria; then, by adding the starter / powder, you're "seeding" the "sterile" (although nothing is ever totally sterile, otherwise it wouldn't function anymore!) milk with the type of bacteria that will do the job you want done. Dietmar >Why doesn't someone try it, just for the heck of it, and let us know what >happens. Personally, I have my doubts about any commercial yogurt because I >could never tolerate the homemade yogurt that I made using commercial yogurt as >a starter, but then when I bought powedered starter, I had no problem. Yes, there are so many variable: if you look at the Yogourmet packet, you'll note is has several types of bacteria listed. Then take a look at different brands of "live" store yoghurt ... the type of bacteria will differ (yoghurt is usually made from any of 4 different types, so they may use 1 or 2 or 3 or all 4), so I would surmise that if you use different type of bacteria, you'll get a different type of fermentation thus a diff. result in the body? Dietmar >This >makes me wonder if there are not some other additives in the commercial yogurt >which are not listed, or if they are using some sort of different culture. >Something is different from the powdered, that's for sure, we just don't know >what it is. Yep. Or it could be WHERE it's made (i.e. Montreal) as compared to, for example, Astra made in Delta or Vancouver or whereever? We can't tell at this point. All we can tell is, as you so wisely point out, "what works and what doesn't", right? Which reiterates what I've said to someone else about "sometimes ya just gotta stop head tripping and go with what works, worry about the "why's" later, for now, just do the right thing". I mean, how much time does one want to spend worrying about all the "if's & why's", when you've already found at least SOME methods that work? Dietmar >Anna > > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 8 Jul 1997 13:38:52 PDT Reply-To: Specific Carbohydrate Diet List <SCD@MAELSTROM.STJOHNS.EDU> Sender: Specific Carbohydrate Diet List <SCD@MAELSTROM.STJOHNS.EDU> From: T G <tguar@HOTMAIL.COM> Subject: commercial yogurt Content-Type: text/plain >You have to have proper storage conditions, a combination of >"correct" moisture content in the air PLUS temperature; same idea of >how good butcher shops age their meat: they have special coolers >which control those 2 factors, whereas if we at home "hang our meat", >which is what butchers call it, I believe, it just gets rotten, >right? > > Dietmar > Don't we already know the proper conditions for fermenting yogurt? We could just put the same commercial yogurt in a yogurt maker without adding any boiled milk and leave it for 24 hours. I am willing to try it, because I can't see any reason why it wouldn't work, but there would be no way to test if all the lactose is gone. When you make yogurt out of milk you can tell if it worked by whether or not it solidifies. This yogurt would already be of that consistency. Take care, Tina _______________________________________________________ Get Private Web-Based Email Free http://www.hotmail.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 8 Jul 1997 14:46:44 PST Reply-To: Specific Carbohydrate Diet List <SCD@MAELSTROM.STJOHNS.EDU> Sender: Specific Carbohydrate Diet List <SCD@MAELSTROM.STJOHNS.EDU> From: ACB <benkea@MAILHOST.PAC.DFO.CA> Subject: try it? In-Reply-To: <61833180707991/1050344@VANHQ1> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN >Don't we already know the proper conditions for fermenting yogurt? We >could just put the same commercial yogurt in a yogurt maker without >adding any boiled milk and leave it for 24 hours. I am willing to try >it, because I can't see any reason why it wouldn't work, but there would >be no way to test if all the lactose is gone. When you make yogurt out >of milk you can tell if it worked by whether or not it solidifies. This >yogurt would already be of that consistency. > >Take care, >Tina Tina, Try it and let us know the result. My prediction is that it gets runny and doesn't work. At least we can see if it "looks" right, even if you won't know about the lactose. If you did it and it did look right, you could probably assume the lactose was gone. I think you'll be able to tell by the consistency, smell and the abscence of visible mold if it worked. Let's see. Anna ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 8 Jul 1997 14:54:41 PST Reply-To: Specific Carbohydrate Diet List <SCD@MAELSTROM.STJOHNS.EDU> Sender: Specific Carbohydrate Diet List <SCD@MAELSTROM.STJOHNS.EDU> From: ACB <benkea@MAILHOST.PAC.DFO.CA> Subject: Re: MOLD? In-Reply-To: <83311180707991/1050023@VANHQ1> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN >hi anna...yes, tomatoes get moldy if i leave them out..but that's true even in >this new house. I'm talking about putting UNRIPE fruit on the kitchen counter until it ripens. I left an unripe mango out for a week and I didn't notice any visible mold. It just ripens. Same with avacados. When you buy them at the grocery store, most fruits are hard as a rock and UNRIPE. If you put them in the fridge, they don't ripen. Do other people out there do this too, or are you saying that there is invisible mold developing and that's why we should keep everything in the fridge? If that is the case, then everything ripe that you buy is chalk full of mold. I don't think so. Please comment anyone. Anna ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 8 Jul 1997 16:58:27 PDT Reply-To: Specific Carbohydrate Diet List <SCD@MAELSTROM.STJOHNS.EDU> Sender: Specific Carbohydrate Diet List <SCD@MAELSTROM.STJOHNS.EDU> From: BILL <btren@BESTWEB.NET> Subject: try it? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"; X-MAPIextension=".TXT" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I did not mean to send anyone on a mission to experiment with re-fermented yogurt. Also there can't be a whole lot of lactose left in the comercial stuff I wouldn't think, or it wouldn't be yogurt. I also don't think you could tell by the consistency because it was already yogurt consistence to begin with. Right? I think the key would be to test somehow for the amount of lactose if that's what we're all so worried about. bill ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 9 Jul 1997 01:09:31 +0200 Reply-To: Specific Carbohydrate Diet List <SCD@MAELSTROM.STJOHNS.EDU> Sender: Specific Carbohydrate Diet List <SCD@MAELSTROM.STJOHNS.EDU> From: mik aidt <mik@INFORM-BBS.DK> Organization: Inform Subject: Re: Information about Wolfgang Lutz Journal Article In-Reply-To: <199707081644.SAA25478@sun.inform.dk> Roberta Gelatt wrote: > Does Anyone know any details about the diet that Wolfgang Lutz recommends? > > Thanks again. > > Roberta Lutz' diet looks very much like the SCD. It is not as extreme, though, but generally, it is the same things that should be avoided. For instance, in Lutz's diet bread is allowed, if only you eat very little of it. I recommend you stick with the SCD! Today, I placed the last pieces at the Lutz page (references and some pictures) which concludes our webproject with Lutz so far... Thanks to Rolf, Dietmar and Barb for making it possible! Yours, Mik ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 8 Jul 1997 13:15:21 -0500 Reply-To: Specific Carbohydrate Diet List <SCD@MAELSTROM.STJOHNS.EDU> Sender: Specific Carbohydrate Diet List <SCD@MAELSTROM.STJOHNS.EDU> From: Roy deCarvalho <roy@UNT.EDU> Subject: Re: yogurt In-Reply-To: <199707081656.LAA01741@mercury.acs.unt.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Another issue with commercial yogurt in addition to the lactose problem is the added sugar, gelatin and what else they put into it. If one could re-ferment it for 20 or so additonal hours the sugar (corn syrup) would still be there. Roy On Tue, 8 Jul 1997, T G wrote: > Bill, > That is a good question and I really think that it would save a lot of > time and trouble. I can't think of any reason why it wouldn't work, and > I'm curious to see what other people in the group think about it. Maybe > someone who is in contact with Elaine needs to ask about it. > > Jim, > If the yogurt was done fermenting after the temperature is no longer at > 100-110F, then how could we use the commercial yogurt as a starter? > Obviously, the bacteria present in the yogurt are still active enough to > eat up all the lactose in the milk that we boil. > > > Everyone, > Does anyone know if there is a kit to test for the lactose content of > foods? If this was the case we could try this easier method of making > yogurt. > > Take care, > Tina > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________________ > Get Private Web-Based Email Free http://www.hotmail.com > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 8 Jul 1997 18:09:02 PDT Reply-To: Specific Carbohydrate Diet List <SCD@MAELSTROM.STJOHNS.EDU> Sender: Specific Carbohydrate Diet List <SCD@MAELSTROM.STJOHNS.EDU> From: BILL <btren@BESTWEB.NET> Subject: sweet yogurt MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"; X-MAPIextension=".TXT" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Is there corn syrup in plain store bought yogurt? Hmmm. Ihave a comment about interacting on the list. I don't inderstand why it is necessary to reprint the whole context of a message to respond to it. I find it a bit boring to have to scroll through a long message that I have already read just to see someone else's reply. I think the dialog is such that it is unnecessary . I'm sorry if this seems petty, but if I make a point and someone responds, I don't need to read my whole message again. If someone in tuning in and misses a point, they may not have read old mail. Just wanted to get that out .maybe it's what happens when a person hits "reply to" instead of just sending a new message? seeya...bill ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 9 Jul 1997 02:22:37 +0300 Reply-To: Specific Carbohydrate Diet List <SCD@MAELSTROM.STJOHNS.EDU> Sender: Specific Carbohydrate Diet List <SCD@MAELSTROM.STJOHNS.EDU> From: "ARLENE C. BRILL" <acbrill@ESCORTNET.COM> Subject: Re: Irritable Bowel Syndrome MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit not that i'm a good example, because my 'symptoms' are on and off...and i think it is related to environment, but the jury is still 'out' on that diagnosis... i have to ask you Jennifer if you are eating enough yogurt? when i start to get (almost the same symptoms as you described) i know that i should get back to yogurt...it almost always helps... arlene ---------- > From: Jennifer Jenkins <jjnkns@MSN.COM> > To: SCD@MAELSTROM.STJOHNS.EDU > Subject: Irritable Bowel Syndrome > Date: Monday, July 07, 1997 6:07 AM > > Does anyone else on the list have irritable bowel syndrome, or another kind of > "benign" diagnosis doctors give after ruling out cancer, inflammatory > conditions, colitis, or Chron's? I had some success with the diet initially > but have had trouble sticking with it lately, in part because I tell myself > that since I haven't been diagnosed with a "serious" condition, it may not be > necessary to follow the SCD diet so strictly. I know that the diet must be > an all-or-nothing commitment. I've eliminated grains and sugar, but I've > been drinking not-so-weak coffee with milk-- the hardest habit to break. I > guess I need some more will power and more information. The SCD book doesn't > have much to say about IBS. > > My stools appear normal, but I often have a lot of gas with sharp pains and > pass large amounts of clear or white mucus, like egg whites. Sometimes there > is blood in the mucus. I only experience diarrhea on the first day of my > period. I also feel extremely fatigued during flare-ups. I have a feeling > that something more serious than IBS is going on. The symptoms are definitely > getting in the way of work and school. I'm pretty happy with my life > otherwise, so I don't think stress is a factor. > > I'm going to the doctor on Friday and am wondering what to say or questions to > ask to get something out of the visit--besides advice on cutting out the > coffee (which I can give myself). The doctor recommended the Gottshall diet > but then said I could introduce some whole grains and other food to test my > tolerance. I think she would not have advised this if she thought I had an > inflammatory condition. > > Any advice on sorting through this and getting the best information or > treatment? > > Thanks ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 8 Jul 1997 21:43:56 -0400 Reply-To: Specific Carbohydrate Diet List <SCD@MAELSTROM.STJOHNS.EDU> Sender: Specific Carbohydrate Diet List <SCD@MAELSTROM.STJOHNS.EDU> From: John Chalmers <johnc@SERV2.FWI.COM> Subject: Messages MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Group, > Mon, 7 Jul 1997 18:15:38 -0700 > From: Tom Robinson <tomr@VADER.INOW.COM> > Re: Why??? > > > Changing topics, I too read Eating Right for your Type. The author says that > as a person with type AB blood I should be able to eat dairy products, which > I can. I was wondering if Denise and others who are not able to eat yoghurt > are the type the author says should avoid dairy: type O. >...snip... > > Tom Robinson I haven't read or seen this book which people are mentioning, however I may buy it sometime soon. I was wondering, though, why my wife who has no bowel problems (I have Crohn's) and is blood type "O" says that she has no problem with dairy products (skim milk, cheese, yogurt, ...) ? Can anyone explain this ? Does the book state for "most" blood type O people or "all" ? Aside from that, thanks to those who have offered me support since the two weeks that I have been on the diet. I have noticed positive changes and am committed to sticking with it. To anyone interested, I am in the process of modifying Deborah Dowd's recipe file which is available via the listserver. I am converting it into HTML format to make it easier to read, allow a margin on both sides in order to hole punch pages and place in binder. More info later. Thanks... Dan. *************************************************************** * Dan Woods The University of Calgary * * dwoods@acs.ucalgary.ca Calgary, AB, CANADA, T2N 1N4 * *************************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 8 Jul 1997 21:53:30 -0400 Reply-To: Specific Carbohydrate Diet List <SCD@MAELSTROM.STJOHNS.EDU> Sender: Specific Carbohydrate Diet List <SCD@MAELSTROM.STJOHNS.EDU> From: John Chalmers <johnc@SERV2.FWI.COM> Subject: Message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: "Foster, Harriet" <hfoster@dtic.mil> RE: an interesting coincidence?? Tue, 08 Jul 97 12:30:00 EST Kay, I was interested in reading about the headaches the Behcets group are experiencing, I too suffered from them until I had an MRI & the endocrinologist discovered my pituitary had collapsed. I began taking synthroid & the headaches abated. Did your doctor look for this possibility? Hampton > From: ARLENE C. BRILL <acbrill@ESCORTNET.COM> > Subject: an interesting coincidence?? > Tuesday, July 08, 1997 10:39 AM > Dear Arlene, Sure it is very possible, my sister -inlaw just called me two weeks ago all excited that maybe she found a cure for me. ( I'm the one with Behcets ) She ran into a friend who had been sick for years and this women found a doctor that put her on a diet similar to the SCD but she is very allergic to mold spores. She only eats meat without additives, she cannot leave fruit or vegetables out on the counter for even a short while , ( since the doctor told her it develops spores in a very short time. Well long story short , the regime this lady followed fixed all that ails her. I wish it was so simple for myself, this diet has greatly helped my colon.Now I need to find cures for the other parts of me that ail. My first flare of Behcets was at age 18 to 19 and a half , I am now 43. Funny thing is that I went into a controllable phase all the way up to age 39 is just co- incidence that I went on Doctor Atkins at age 19 and a half .( I had packed on a few newly wed lbs ) His diet sure is similar to the SCD. Sadly my hunt for a total cure is still on as I have neuro involvement, if I could beat these headaches I would be singing from the hill tops. Also I have a lot of muscle degeneration. A while back someone wrote about what Behcets is it was a very misleading and limited description. Here is my description of what Behcets is although I will miss many symptoms , I think all will get the idea. I will list the ones that seem to be shared by almost all in our Behcet's group. Plus some shared by luckily a few ( Blindness) Mouth and genital cankers ( Mouth more frequent) Arthritis ( unlike what was written it does not take a long time to develop , especially when aided by large doses of pred. ) Involvement of the entire digestive tract. from the mouth right down to the rectum and vagina, Often mis diagnosed as CD or UC. This also includes the sinuses. ( this along with head trouble was my first symptom bad enough to complain about) Neuro involvement Migraines , peripheral neuropathy over ninety percent of the people in our behcets group which numbers 150 have a big problem with head troubles. MRI's show white patches on the brain from the headaches Skin rashes and photo sensitivity . Only 25 % of United states patients respond to the pin prick test. Blindness , luckily in the US this also runs at a low percent. Fatigue and muscle degeneration It can also attack the organ of it's choice Now here is an interesting tidbit Behcets people all seem to gain weight in large amounts when put on steroids. All the people I know with CD still seem to lose even when on large doses. So if you gain while on them think about Behcets. ( That is only my personal observation) I try very hard to get people on our Behcets list to try the Scd or variations of it . I would say the ten of us on the list that use alternative methods and special diets are in the best shape. Now here is what really bugged me on the post someone else wrote about Behcets that it seems to run in ten year cycles. WRONG !!!!! Many in our group have been suffering for 20 , 30 and even more years. We have quite a few teens with it also. Even some babies, it can strike a person at ANY AGE. I have not covered all the symptoms but I hope it will give all of you a bit of a clearer picture of just what Behcets is. I am so happy that you have found relief Arlene , I would suggest if you think mold is a big problem for you that you keep your fruit and veggies in the fridge and scrub them just before eating. I hope you still limit your bread and other carbo intake. I lent my SCd diet book to a women in England , but when I get it back I would gladly mail it to you. Take Care, Kay > > i wonder, i just wonder....the other house had a terrible moisture > problem....i had > mold and mildew climbing up the walls in the bedroom and there was NOWAY > to get rid of it...i tried for 3 years...this new house is > dry...totally..with lots of sunlight > so that the mold and mildew won't even make an appearance. > > is it possible that my body was reacting to the 'spores' in the air???and > that's what > was causing an auto-immune response?? could it possibly be so?? > > arlene in istanbul ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 8 Jul 1997 22:47:34 -0600 Reply-To: Specific Carbohydrate Diet List <SCD@MAELSTROM.STJOHNS.EDU> Sender: Specific Carbohydrate Diet List <SCD@MAELSTROM.STJOHNS.EDU> From: Partridge <raparch@PLANET.EON.NET> Subject: Re: Are we focused? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Greetings! It is great to see things back on line again and that we are getting a free flow of information. There is such great assistance knowing that people are not alone with this disease.... However, I am troubled by the tenor that the SCD Support Group is taking. Not that long ago someone (I forget who) set out some simple guidelines, etiquette and rules of the road for our use of this group. Recently, there seems to be an influx of em's dealing with other books, diets, regimens, mindsets, "occurances" and paradigms. All these (as open minded individuals taking charge of their illnesses) have their place and time. I understood that this support group was for those on the Specific Carbohydrate Diet as oultined in E.Gottshall's Book(s) "Breaking The Viscous Cycle" /"Eating Right for A Bad Gut". We value the comments of those who have been strict on the diet (no rice milks, soy milks, corn, corn syrup,etc) as this diet works at the molecular level and is not a diet that one can occasionally "cheat on" like some diets. Also there has been a plethora of comments on other diets that actually include forbidden foods under the SCD, no wonder some are asking if certain foods are acceptable, the SCD is at risk of becoming marginalized if we keep including other non SCD diets in our discussions. If it is our personal belief then we are entitled to it otherwise it has no place in this forum which deals with those on the SCD. Is it that many on the group do not have the book or access to it? It is quite clear what is acceptable and what is not. After reading it several times (I make a point to read the first 60 pages every six months or so) I find it well written and easy to follow. The recipies serve to put into practice what is covered in the diet. The comments from ones who have worked to modify and improve the diets recipies are invaluable to us as a family as we all enjoy the same food as our daughter (5 years with Crohns Disease of the colon). This is a positive side to the group. We have enjoyed the comments of those who have put up with so much and have come out winners after their colonoscopies, this gives us and others the encouragement to continue. Discussion about medication, flares and well being are also insightful and appreciated as the diet is an adjunct to medication. The "hang in there" and "This too shall pass" emails kept us going through some dark days and nights. Should this group become a personal forum to promote personal ideas that are somewhat tangential to the diet? - do not get me wrong, I am not trying to stiffle public debate and commentary but I wonder what is served by discussion about yougurt and blood groups - is this a substantiated study that we can all access or is it again a commentary??. My experience is that IBD sufferers are a unique group among those with chronic illness and often these tangential emails serve only to bewilder and set them of on a tangent perhaps only to undo what has taken weeks with small gains to achieve. Incidentally, we have been with the diet for close to two years, my wife is Type "O", I am Type "AB" and my daughter is type "A" we all enjoy and tolerate yougurt. We should count the cost of our comments before sending them out - ask ourselves, is this really encouraging? will it value the other SCDer's? is it substantiated and can I refer direct to a specific document? Do we have our facts/quotes correct?. On the point of the yougurt/blood issue what happens if someone thinks that yougurt is causing them a problem and they stop taking it. If we are strict to the diet yougurt is fundemental to it. If made correctly it will be tolerated by most people. Further, we should be careful about exclusions. The book when read c a r e f u l l y and repeatedly yeilds greater insight. On exclusions after discussing the diet in depth the book states: "The Specific Carbohydrate Diet is highly nutritious and, depending choice of the foods, is well balanced. Every effort should be made to "round out" the diet by eating sensibly and not, for example consuming large quantities of meat, or more than four muffins each day TO THE EXCLUSION OF OTHER FOODS" (Page 46, Par 1) I myself do not want to discourage but I hope that we can move away from the current trend. If I am wrong in my perception, I will stand corrected. Respectfully submitted, Allan Partridge ALLAN ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 9 Jul 1997 09:07:10 -0300 Reply-To: Specific Carbohydrate Diet List <SCD@MAELSTROM.STJOHNS.EDU> Sender: Specific Carbohydrate Diet List <SCD@MAELSTROM.STJOHNS.EDU> From: Penny Hoover <ak834@CHEBUCTO.NS.CA> Subject: symptoms MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Hi people: I am new to the list and have been reading your correspondence with great interest. I have an undiagnosed digestive problem which has responded well to the scd. I came to the diet naturally, simply by eliminating things which bothered me. By "bothered" I mean they caused extreme fatigue and an unusual cardiac response. At first I would awaken at night after a few minutes of sleep with my heart racing, later on the rapid heart beat would occur anytime I ate certain complex carbs. I eliminated all grains and dairy, except for cheese and certain other vegies. I had diarrhea only when I consumed dairy products. My other main symptom is dehydration which, I have discovered, was partly responsible for the fatigue. I like the scd, I feel alive when I follow it faithfully and do no physical work. However, I live on a small homestead and there is alot of physical labour involved in this lifestyle, and the scd just can't generate the amount of energy I need. I was ok until I foolishly submitted to a lactose intolerance test. The results did not show a classic intolerance, but I haven't been able to eat cheese since - which was, I guess, my major source of fuel (I ate gobs of it everyday when active). So now, when I attempt to put in even a half day of work, I get so played out that I can't move for a couple of days. I have had no results from the medical profession and am floundering for some answers. I've been tested for a wide variety of things, with no enlightening results. And I am afraid, after the lactose test, to submit to any invasive testing. I am hoping that there is someone on this list who has symptoms similar to mine - I don't really fit the scd profile - or perhaps I just halted the progression of a bowel disease by going on the diet in its early stages. Any help will be greatly appreciated. Penny ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 9 Jul 1997 07:52:41 -0400 Reply-To: Specific Carbohydrate Diet List <SCD@MAELSTROM.STJOHNS.EDU> Sender: Specific Carbohydrate Diet List <SCD@MAELSTROM.STJOHNS.EDU> From: John Chalmers <johnc@SERV2.FWI.COM> Subject: TOPIC MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi All There is another message that talks about some messages that depart a bit from the SCD topic. Elaine Gottschall got the diet information from Dr. Haas who developed the diet in the late 1940's. In her talks, she adamantly says that she will not change even one word of what Dr. Haas told her. It is much like wanting to change a piece of music by Mozart or adjusting the wording of a play by Shakespeare. Elaine considers Dr. Haas to be a master. It is not understood why the diet works. Elaine has spent many years trying to understand it. I personally have used a rotation diet plan to overcome Crohn's disease (before Elaine's fisrt book was published). I don't talk about that approach much as I have found through personal experience with our local support group that people are much more receptive to the SCD method. The rotation plans can help some but they are of little value if not used. In more than 5 years I was unable to convince even 1 person to try a rotation plan. After that futile effort, I now have several success stories locally using the SCD. The problem we have in our local support group is that once the people get better they no longer need the support and they stop attending the meetings. In summary, I believe that the SCD is the best diet approach available. Since I work with Elaine Gottschall I have committed to her to follow her wishes at all times. John ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 9 Jul 1997 09:47:39 MDT Reply-To: Specific Carbohydrate Diet List <SCD@MAELSTROM.STJOHNS.EDU> Sender: Specific Carbohydrate Diet List <SCD@MAELSTROM.STJOHNS.EDU> From: Daniel Woods <dwoods@ACS.UCALGARY.CA> Subject: Bill's reply concerns Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Bill, > Date: Tue, 8 Jul 1997 18:09:02 PDT > From: BILL <btren@BESTWEB.NET> > Subject: sweet yogurt > > Is there corn syrup in plain store bought yogurt? Hmmm. > Ihave a comment about interacting on the list. I don't inderstand why it > is necessary to reprint the whole context of a message to respond to it. I > find it a bit boring to have to scroll through a long message that I have > already read just to see someone else's reply. I think the dialog is such > that it is unnecessary . I'm sorry if this seems petty, but if I make a > point and someone responds, I don't need to read my whole message again. If > someone in tuning in and misses a point, they may not have read old mail. > Just wanted to get that out .maybe it's what happens when a person hits > "reply to" instead of just sending a new message? > seeya...bill > Personally I prefer replies with messages intact. Why? Because I save most of the messages I get from the SCD list, however I don't need to save the original message since it is included in a reply from someone else (I save this message only). And sometimes it's just not possible to follow (ie: read) the list all the time. Our health is and should be be a major priority in our lives, however life goes on... Thanks... Dan. *************************************************************** * Dan Woods The University of Calgary * * dwoods@acs.ucalgary.ca Calgary, AB, CANADA, T2N 1N4 * *************************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 9 Jul 1997 11:57:02 -0500 Reply-To: Specific Carbohydrate Diet List <SCD@MAELSTROM.STJOHNS.EDU> Sender: Specific Carbohydrate Diet List <SCD@MAELSTROM.STJOHNS.EDU> From: richard dodge <rdodge@MAIL.UTEXAS.EDU> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hello folks: Re: Allan Partridge's discussion "ARE WE FOCUSED?" I have strong feelings about this. Here's my story: 1. I only started using the Internet in the last 6 months because I was very concerned about my adult son, who had been diagnosed with CD in June 96. My daughter used the net and pointed out the information from the Crohn's Colitis foundation. ONLY an emergency would have driven me to using this medium. 2. I threw my hat in the ring on the IBD list after reading no more than 2 or 3 posts. I spoke from the heart without editing. 3. I pissed several people off, who wrote me rude messages, both publicly to the list and privately. (What principally irked people was I wasn't a sufferer and yet immediately thought of gathering up all the lore from the Internet and putting it in some other--printed--form. I just thought the Internet was as arcane to others as it had been to me. I DIDN'T THINK). 4. These flames were more devastating to me than I could possibly have guessed. 5. As soon as I found out about the Gottshall book I bought it and read it and sent one to my son (who lives in Sweden; Nothern Sweden has an IBD rate 10 times the rest of the industrialized world. Hmmm. NO sun, NO veggies, lots of dairy, sugar, and refined flour.) 6. He so far has not decided to use it. 7. I am trying the diet (have just over 30 days) to see how much trouble it is and what the affect is on a person not suffering from IBD. (I'm constipated and have lost 8 pounds. Lutz talks about the constipating effect). 8. I'm reading textbooks, the Internet, the IBD list, the scd list. I like you folks the best. 9. Earlier, I would not have agreed with Allan's point about focusing the discussion, since I so needed people to talk to. Even though some people flamed me, a few responded to the anguish they heard under the whining, and I have several penpals. I can talk to them at length and about anything. SO NOW I'm ready to focus (present post excepted) with some caveats. (Caveat: a legal notice . . .to suspend a certain proceeding until the notifier is given a hearing. I think there will always be times when comments like Allan's are sorely needed to get a HEARING from everybody in the group and see we're still on the same sheet of music). 10. Back to focusing the discussion on scd list. I have hard copies of ALMOST ALL the posts from the scd list from the last 3 months in 3-ring binders. (I have the IBD list on paper back to when it started). 11. NOW I can see why the protocol for one-short-message-per-post makes sense. I have made a filing system for the scd list based on SUBJECT. I have files on IBD Theory, Personal Testimony, Recipes, Yogurt, Vitamins, Alt. Therapy, Other diets, Research, Medication, Surgery, Immune System, Experts--and the categories are still proliferating. I read a post and don't know where to put it. Paper piles up. I see a pattern then lose it. I want to be able to succinctly report to my son and instead end up copying stuff and sending it to him, thus defeating the purpose of all the hours I've spent in trying to cut the wheat from the chaff. 12. CONCLUSION We forget very quickly what it was like to be newly diagnosed or to be the parent of spouse or other love one of someone diagnosed. You can't believe how both humbled and toughened up I am since the first shock of reading medical textbooks. IMHO (snicker, snicker, see what I've picked up, and if you don't know what it means e-mail me directly. I'm using it to prove I just didn't get off the last boat, as my immigrant Grandmother used to say.) People can be told how a culture, such as the Internet/scd list, works, and then gently be led to adopt its ways. For the most part, they don't need to have their feet held to the flames. Or insiders can just be patient until newcomers pick it up. I don't remember ever seeing any info on how the scd list operates. Obviously, it's a unique culture, quite different from the IBD list or the Crohn's Colitis foundation. I was never TOLD about a one message per post rule; I finally inferred it. I'd like to know when it's OK and not rude to respond just to the person sending the message and not the whole group.(I think that would be one way to keep tedious conversations some of us want to have on other topics from intruding on the whole group, but it's always a judgment call.) EVEN MORE CONCLUSIVE CONCLUSION The question seems to be: which way are we going to err--towards the INclusive or the EXclusive? I'll play either way once I know the rules. While I'm learning, I appreciate it when people tell me how to act along with assuring me that everybody had to learn. PLEEASE forgive me for such a long message. I value each and every one of you on this list, you're an inspiration. Like Dietmar, I'm a recovering intellectual. Life dishes out experiences the mind can't handle alone. Besides suffering from intestinal problems, you guys are wonderful and brave and smart and funny--and so am I, and that's why I belong here. Best regards, KD in Texas ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 9 Jul 1997 09:56:50 -0700 Reply-To: Specific Carbohydrate Diet List <SCD@MAELSTROM.STJOHNS.EDU> Sender: Specific Carbohydrate Diet List <SCD@MAELSTROM.STJOHNS.EDU> From: Dempsey <stellar1@PACBELL.NET> Subject: Re: symptoms MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear Penny, I wanted to address one of the issues you mentioned in your post, namely that it can be hard to get calories. I've been on a very strict diet lately since I've been trying to weed out some food allergies/intolerances. I tell ya, finding some foods that don't upset me and just eating them all the time makes a world of psychological difference. So I can understand how hard it is giving up cheese when you've been using it a lot. I'll tell you what my mainstays are: chicken, cauliflower, canola oil spritzed on instead of butter, avocado (great source of fat and calories), and lately I've been able to add acorn squash, cantelope and watermelon. I look forward to being able to add more foods, but for now, just knowing I have stuff i can eat that will give me fuel, makes a big difference. Also make sure to drink plenty of water, that can be a source of fatigue as well. Take care, Denise Penny Hoover wrote: > > Hi people: > > I am new to the list and have been reading your correspondence with great > interest. I have an undiagnosed digestive problem which has responded > well to the scd. I came to the diet naturally, simply by eliminating > things which bothered me. By "bothered" I mean they caused extreme > fatigue and an unusual cardiac response. At first I would awaken at night > after a few minutes of sleep with my heart racing, later on the rapid > heart beat would occur anytime I ate certain complex carbs. I eliminated > all grains and dairy, except for cheese and certain other vegies. I had > diarrhea only when I consumed dairy products. My other main symptom is > dehydration which, I have discovered, was partly responsible for the fatigue. > > I like the scd, I feel alive when I follow it faithfully and do no > physical work. However, I live on a small homestead and there is alot of > physical labour involved in this lifestyle, and the scd just can't > generate the amount of energy I need. I was ok until I foolishly > submitted to a lactose intolerance test. The results did not show a > classic intolerance, but I haven't been able to eat cheese since - which > was, I guess, my major source of fuel (I ate gobs of it everyday when > active). So now, when I attempt to put in even a half day of work, I get > so played out that I can't move for a couple of days. > > I have had no results from the medical profession and am floundering for > some answers. I've been tested for a wide variety of things, with no > enlightening results. And I am afraid, after the lactose test, to submit > to any invasive testing. I am hoping that there is someone on this list > who has symptoms similar to mine - I don't really fit the scd profile - > or perhaps I just halted the progression of a bowel disease by going on > the diet in its early stages. Any help will be greatly appreciated. > > Penny > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
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